I should start by reminding everybody that the Boy is 10 years old, almost ten and a half. Parts of him are incredibly precocious, but, due to his Apserger's  Syndrome- his social skills, and his understanding about loads of things that most of us take for granted... are quite the opposite of precocious.

Uhm, Last week, one of the days when I was frazzled to begin with, the Boy started throwing things and snorting at the kids' computer while his mother was trying to sleep about a foot away from him, I had visions of something hard winging its way over or around the computer screen and over the back of the couch and wacking her in the head while she was trying to enjoy a much deserved nap.

I began quietly suggesting that he calm down, he started yelling at me. Instead of giving him his fifth lecture that week about talking back to adults (which he claims is a concept he just does not understand- and that gets complicated. He might not understand it at all and think we're trying to punish him 'for nothing!' like he shrieks at us when I ask him if he knows why we sent him up stairs to his room to chill when he's tantrum-ing... or it may be a ploy to try to get out of another punishment. He can produce tears when he wants to, he can lie convincingly (Not always- but he has been able to pull it off) & fer instance, in a game with his behaviour specialist, he proudly bragged that he's faked being sick to have himself sent home from school when he didn't want to do something there.)  Anyway---

As things accelerated, and more things were being thrown at the ground and around the room, I asked hiim how long he'd been on the computer (he gets a 'free' half hour a day, extra time has to be earned by doing chores) and he started screaming that he didn't know. I had a pretty good idea that he'd been there between an hour and an hour and a half. I told hiim he was out of 'chips' and he should shut down the computer-  He threw another handful of whatever was handy at the floor and said he wasn't going to shut it down, he was going to leave it on. actually, he shrieked that at me.

Being shrieked at in defiance was the last straw, I told him to go up to his room. He shrieked something else, I said, in a very firm voice, that if he was going to be like that he could spend the rest of the evening in his room thinking about things.

His mother woke up. she, partially dazed and not happy with being awakened by a shriek fest told me I was being too harsh.

My brain short circuited (I don't believe in showing any signs that she and I are anything but 100% in agreement when it comes to discipline & it throws me for a loop when he's acting up and she yells at me for trying to do something about that. big issue with me- He runs into me in a store and yells at me, she turns around and yells at me too. He tries to run around me to get next to her, stops dead an inch in front of the supermarket carriage I'm pushing, I can't stop in time. she thinks I run into hiim on purpose, he yells at me, and she yells at me. And the couple times when he's done things like that when I know she can't help but see the whole thing, she says she didn't see it. -eh- It makes me really feel like, "Why do I keep trying?")

Okay, so anyway. Boy shuts down the computer and stomps up the stairs. He slams his door (which he broke, slamming it before) and then starts throwing things at his door from the inside. I walk halfway  up the stairs and yell, "If you throw one more thing, you will hand us all your game boys-"

He shouts back, "You're being too harsh!" (I think, he's just heard the word a minute or so ago and probably has no idea what it means.)

But anyway- Things become quiet and his mother can sigh and sink back into her much needed, much deserved nap.

I'm feeling agitated, I'm wondering if I had used too loud a tone of voice after he initially ignored me. I'm wondering if I had been too harsh- I sigh, plop down in the recliner and pray for guidance... insight, anything....

Maybe half an hour later, the boy loudly opens his door and snarls, "So when do I get to get out of my room?!"

I call up to him, "That depends, why did we send you up there?"

"I don't know----"

"Okay, then I guess you have to think about it a bit longer-"

He groans and the door slams shut.

I wince and get up,  climb the stairs, knock on his door, open it a crack, ask him, "Can I come in?"

He snarls, "No-"

"Okay," I  shrug, "If I can't come in, I guess you can stay there all night."

"Okay," he groans, "You can come in."

"So why do you think I sent you to your room?"

His eyes fill with tears and he yells, "For no reason!"

""Um, What do you think  I  thought you were doing wrong?"

"I don't know- ------"

So I sighed, "Okay, here- two examples, in one a father says, "That's innapropriate-" in another he says, "How stupid can you be? you have to be an idiot to do something like that!"  Which one is the more rude?"

He laughs and says,  "the second one."

"Okay, another example: A boy  is told to do something that he doesn't want to do; one, he says, (in a quiet, even tone) "But I don't like doing that-" two, he says (in a tone that most people would call derisive, almost to point of being abusive), "NO!!!!!!!!!"  which one is the more rude?"

"The first one-" he's serious.

"Why?"

"Because it has more words."

It really doesn't register that the second tone of voice was way "over the top".

Woa. I'm taken aback again.

"Okay, so are you ready to go back downstairs and be nice and quiet and let your mom sleep?"

"I can try-"

I nod, "That's the best you can do- is to try."

When we get downstairs, I ask him, "Okay, do you want to apologize to your mother?"

He looks like he's about to panic, "No-"

"Um, how about you whisper in her ear that you'll try not to make any more noise  so she can get some rest, she'd like that-"

He shakes his head, "I don't like apologizing-"

I think that nobody likes apologizing, it probably has to be done, but if I force him to do that we'll have another melt down and we'll have another loud confrontation and his Mom will have another rude interruption... so I hope that maybe the concept that he might have to apologize for rude behaviouor will seep into his conciousness, and maybe next time....?

Okay, he goes and does a couple chores and earns himself another half hour on the computer, and sits there with expensive head phones that his biological father bought him (the boy has more disposable income than his mom and I do  together- grumble grumble....) laughing very loudly at silly videos on You Tube.

And I plunk down in the recliner and wonder if anything I do or say does him  any good at all...

(help, help-)

-----Jim

Well not being a father I have a hard enuf time wondering what its like to raise children Jim - cant imagine what your situation is like.

I have spent time with my nephews of course and I can say this without a doubt.... you have TONS more patience than i do Jim..... it must be extremely hard sometimes but it seems like you handle it (externally at least) in the best way possible.

It does. It really does. Remember what he was like we you first came here, back in the day when "daddy was for Eirye, mommy is [me]" and any male attention at all was wonderful. That was very worrisome indeed, and as much as I tried to be there for him and do one on one stuff, I was working so hard and was trying to make time for daughter who lost a whole lot of mommy attention when little guy came, and unlike most babies, that time didn't get much freer as he got older. Here was a girl who lived through strangers chastizing us for his behaviour, who had strangers running up to me handing me food because obviously he was hungry he was so loud and what was I doing shopping with a hungry baby and on and on...

Then came you who would spend time with him, lol, it turned out you had no choice but to spend time with him, but the time you spend is time like being a Beaver leader, and there to show him things if he asks.

Harsh? Well you must remember he does have Asperger's and while it is so easy to slip into the defiant child mode, as you saw there, he very often doesn't understand, and facial expressions and body language and tone of voice are things that Asperger's kids simply can't fathom without help. Someone described these kids as either Spock or Data. They are right, and we have a kid who doesn't ever want to show he's wrong or doesn't understand so what do you get? Apparent attitude.

A gentle reminder with all autistic kids though is that yelling is pointless, it is loud and noisy and words are rushing at them (receptive language) and it is frustrating because obvious somebody is upset but how or why ... words are scrambling and bouncing off the walls in the ears. Shouting does no good. You have to speak to him calmly (like you did in the room) or you are just not going to get through to him. You will, however, get turtle.

Harsh? Yes because we can't make threats and not follow through. I am not following through on taking away all of hi

Crap. It cut me off. Paraphrasing:

I am not following through on taking away all of his toys because that has to be for something concrete, not abstract like "rude" and "talking back". Concrete like going outside in the middle of the night unbeknownst to us - that would merit taking away toys if we told him you don't ever do that, and he does. It is something specific.

It is hard and I do appreciate it, as much as nobody else seems to understand what it is like (except for maybe daughter) and on top of you are in a situation where my family is not very nice to me and definitely not to you, and others refuse to believe there's anything the matter with him. Yes, I do appreciate it. You understand.

My mom is upset with me. I forgot to acknowledge her in my book. I felt bad she was hurt, but I told her I thanked people directly related to my writing this, not as an intentional omission, it was an oversight. I reminded her that I don't get included in many things in the family, like auntie's memorial; she said if she had put me as well as my sister she'd have to include everybody. She'd thought I might be hurt but really it was better that way. Um, yes. Well, like I said, the book wasn't intentional.

So yes, Jim, you get it. And I'm sorry if it is hard, that's how life is with me. That's all.

Thank you for your comments and understanding... And Cathi, If you want, you can probably add an aknowledgement about your mom in your next printing-

& Cap' -- Thanks for your encouraging words- it does help to know that friends I've never seen are stopping by to tell me when I'm doing something right- & if I stick my neck out a bit, they won't cut my head off- :o

Thanks again-

-----Jim

Anytime Jim.

;-)

Wil

Im pretty sure you did but I would worry too much about it. Its not easy to have a child with any disablities to get them to understand the concept of having respect for some one else. That being said its no excuse. I think that you did what was need to be done and thats it.... Take Care

Just stopping in to say hi!